Offering Web Design & Marketing Services Together with Jen Ellsworth
- December 4, 2023
- Posted by: MainInstructor
- Category: E-Commerce Entrepreneurship Go Web Design
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Video Title: Offering Web Design & Marketing Services Together with Jen Ellsworth
The most important thing that allows me to do it is that with each project because I have that constraint and I have that cap that time that I have booked that client that is 110% dedicated to them and to them only so that means during that week I have
Content that’s going out but that’s pre-planned um no other clients are getting my attention I might respond to leads but other than that they have a 100% of my time and dedication one that makes a client feel really important but that also gives me the ility to go all
In with that client and then get it done and they feel well taken care of Welcome to the web design business podcast with your host Josh Hall helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love hey friends welcome into the show
Welcome back if you are a regular listener welcome to the show if you’re a new listener maybe this is the first time listening to the show great to have you here I’m really excited to to be with you here in this one because we’re going to dive into a very very needed
Topic to really get I feel get some clarity on in web design and that is how to offer web design services along with marketing services and the reason I think this is so important right now today as we head into the end of 2023 is that web designers can so easily be
Viewed as Commodities if we’re not doing something to help our clients grow their businesses but if you’re like me you don’t want to be a digital marketing agency doing everything and all their social media and everything else so the beauty about web design is you can
Really do whatever you want to do in fact I have an episode just a little while back on episode 287 that I highly recommend you relisten to if you haven’t listened to it yet uh about my recommendation on offering services and build support and grow those three
Categories but I want to take that growth category to the next level and that’s what we’re going to do in this episode and because I don’t have too much experience on the marketing side of things myself I wanted to invite some somebody on who is doing a really good
Job of of doing this well because for your reference if you didn’t know I primarily did website builds hosting and maintenance recurring income repeat work with clients and a little bit of content and SEO work but I didn’t do any marketing services for clients but you
Can really stand out if you do but you need to know how to handle it well so a long-winded way of saying I’m so excited to welcome back on to the show Jen Ellsworth who has rebranded her website to click charisma.com I wanted the specifically have her on to talk about
How to offer marketing services along with web design because she’s doing a really really good job doing it and she’s also found a really nice balance with how to offer that when to offer it whether or not they should be included in the web design package and branding
Package or whether it should be separate all that and more we cover in this episode Jen has really done an incredible job at also time management and making sure she stays balanced as a web designer and a stay-at-home mom as well so all that to say so excited to
Have Jen back on the show to share what she’s doing well and what’s working for her with offering marketing along with Web Design Services again check her out at click charisma.com after this she’s really in uh active on Instagram that’s the best place to follow her as well @
Click Charisma all right here’s Jen let’s talk web design marketing and Web Design Services together well Jen it’s so good to see you again welcome back on to the podcast and thank you for taking some time out of your busy day and schedule to chat
Here yeah Josh I’m excited to be back on so couple years ago we chatted last like two and a half years ago um I only had two kids you had just had your daughter I think at that point we kind of you were episode 171 we kind of talked about
Being a mom preneur and being a work from home mom preneur as a web designer and kind of an online marketer your business has evolved since we talked last uh you have kind of a new brand you have a a bigger Suite of services so I’m
Kind of curious to kick us off what is the difference between JY now and JY couple years ago when we chatted last yeah so a few years ago I was a baby in my business brand new and at that point in time I was only offering custom design or website design with WordPress
Um now my daughter is three and I’ve been in business for 3 years I have also started offering Shopify show it and WordPress and expanded a lot of my offers into digital marketing as well so monthly marketing packages social media strategy and really an all-encompassing kind of all-inclusive approach to web design um
Because I think a lot of those pieces work together for small businesses um and then of course I also did a little personal Rebrand too um as where I was Jennifer ellworth web design before I’m now click Charisma so that has been really fun to kind of see me evolve over
The the last three years okay so two really important things I want to dig into before we get into the idea of like the website in the day versus custom websites the personal brand versus a company brand and then the suite of services so I actually I want to start
With the uh personal brand and versus company brand because I still have a personal brand Josh hall.co although I have products and and a program under that with my community that’s branded now web designer Pro um but I still have every everything under Josh hall.co what do you
I guess what’s the benefit of having a company name that you found versus a a personal brand or is there do you still kind of wish you had a personal brand what’s that been like for you so I kind of consider myself almost as both I still am very the Forefront of my
Business um what I post on my social media is very me um however I decided to make the switch because I found myself associating all of my content all of my work like way too personally it was way too close for me to be able to take a
Step back and look at what the business needed and the content the business itself should be posting or putting out versus what I as a person should be posting um or putting out or what kind of work I should be doing and that kind of helped me separate the two where I
Could go okay this is the business this is the strategy for the business and then that has nothing to do with me even though I’m representing my brand so it just kind of created that space for me to look at my business more strategically versus through the lens of only myself have you
Thought about what the future would look like with scaling and bringing a team on eventually like it was that a a a reason potentially for the name change to in case you wanted to make it bigger than just you yes for sure because I know in
The future right now I am a solo entrepreneur I have had subcontractors but I am still very much so a oneman show but I know as I scale and serve more clients I’m going to have to bring on a team to help me so I really wanted to start structuring a company style
Brand that had really clear missions and values so that way when I do start hiring the people that I hire have a really clear understanding of the company that they are getting into um in the values and missions that click Charisma stands for um I also wanted
Them to feel like they’re part of something bigger versus just working for just one individual because I really am like I want them to feel pride in who they work for and have it feel like collaborative like a team that’s interesting I didn’t really think about that approach from a subcontracting
Standpoint of what it’s like for yeah the people you collaborate with to feel a sense of pride in something rather than just working for someone yeah that’s a really interesting approach I had thought about that I really like that idea though um I don’t know if if
Anyone has has branded a company name with that in mind but it makes sense when you’re hiring out to like feel a part of of something yeah that’s really interesting yeah yeah and there’s a lot of um like there’s a lot of different brands out there but typically I think there’s
Benefit to doing both because when you think of bigger names like let’s say Grant Cardone you don’t think of Cardone Ventures you think of Grant Cardone but then everyone in his everybody that works for him works for Cardone Ventures that has its own mission and values so I
Think there’s a balance there’s actually I feel like a lot of times we’re forced to choose between okay you’re strictly a company brand or strictly a personal brand I think there’s a world where there can be both mesh together yeah I like that idea too I because I mean typically with any
Personal brand there’s always a business name behind it even if it’s a personal name it’s still like the business entity uh like like the Cardon Adventures I didn’t realize that was the case for him but it makes a ton of sense and honestly it’s kind of cool to be able to have a
Personal brand be a business whatever it’s called and you can still as the leader and as the person who founded it be like the the showrunner and the the face of the business but yeah to your point the people who work for it’s something different so that’s really
Cool to hear about how that’s evolved and worked for you Services is what’s really interesting to me and I think this will segue into website in a day because yeah I think when we started when you came on last time I think I heard your puppy which is he too loud no
No I have two in my office I’m just surprised they’re keeping quiet luckily they just sleep I have two lazy golden retrievers that sleep all day and get wild at night so uh you can hear him too much just let me know and I will go give
Him a toy treat whatever to keep occupied he did that last time I was recording and I was like oh my gosh we’re going to create so many edits for me oh no that’s oh we’re keeping it in puppies are welcome in this show for
Sure so no we’re all good but yeah like your services I think were pretty much just website design last time we chatted right was it yes no media no marketing just just website design um a lot of different Services I think is super beneficial in the way of being more of a
Full service style shop for for for clients because not only do you do the website but you helping out with other stuff but at the same time it’s dangerous territory when you become a full digital marketing agency as a one woman show sit so how do you balance
Both like how do you I guess that’s kind of the question I want to lead off with is how do you do a lot and do it well and keep it constrained yeah so I have to be really honest with one my capacity to be able to fulfill you know the
Offers that I’m putting out there so I do have a cap on the kind of services or how many that I take on at a time um and I over the years have gotten really good at managing my time and my schedule and knowing what is realistic and how many
Clients I can take on because yes it does get very dangerous Cate like um very dangerous if you take on too many clients at one time because yes you can get them but you also need to perform for them as well so just be really honest with your capacity to be able to
Fulfill them um for example my custom design I actually keep to a week long oh okay so you have website in a day but even your Custom Design is still productized rather than it being a three-month style drag out project yes exactly and then for my other marketing Services I only
Take on um one social media client at a time because social media is a very timec consuming um creating the graphics the meetings and then also my monthly marketing I only take on three of those at a time and then I always and very detailed with what they’re going to
Receive in that so with my monthly marketing they get eight hours a month um and one strategy call so with that I’m keeping track okay how many hours of work did they get how many meetings did we do um and that way the client knows what to expect but then also I know
Exactly with my schedule how many clients I can take on there is power and Beauty in a Capp style situation and it’s weird because it’s it’s like the idea of a cap as somebody who just loves the online world of Financial Freedom and sky is the limit I’ve also realized
More recently when you have something that is time intensive a cap or a constraint is crucial and the cool thing about this is what you’re doing is you can kind of play around with it like you could keep your rates at a certain place for a little while and have a capped or
Constrained style set up with number of clients and and amount of services for a little while and then change it and evolve it or as your team grows you could have a bigger cap and I’m finding this out with my membership web designer Pro I recently added a cap at 250
Members because it includes coaching with me and I can I only have so much bandwidth we’re already at 150 members right now so we’re at like the time of recording this we’re on our last leg of that and then once we get to that cap then we’ll look at what the next step
Will look like to be able to bring more people and have different tiers so to your approach I think this is really valuable for folks who are managing a lot and you’re worried about having a hundred you know requests come in every day the cap idea is really interesting
How are you um are are these like the social media the marketing type of stuff you’re doing SEO websites are you are these all the same client like are you bringing them through a process or are you finding that uh you might have one doing social media one doing website in
A day one doing a custom website and then one doing email setup like how are you yeah are they different clients are they the same client both so a lot of them are the same client and all of my monthly marketing clients have been past clients who I built websites for who are
Selling their products but they know that they need more intensive marketing strategies um and they just don’t have the time or the bandwidth to do it or they lack the knowledge of how to do it effectively um so I have gotten a lot of my marketing clients from past clients
My social media clients are typically just a little bit different typically there’s smaller businesses solo entrepreneurs who just need help with the social media piece and the strategy but don’t necessarily need a full website or don’t necessarily need um a full marketing strategy so like hair stylists estheticians that are renting
Out a room just smaller scale businesses that are really pushing social media really hard gotcha so are with the with the social media marketing will you take on clients that have not worked with you or is are those more or less like upsale Services typically for like clients who
Have done websites with you so I would take on either I take on clients who have never worked with me before and I take on clients that want to come back to me for social media okay do you find that all roads lead to websites that’s certainly what I’ve found when it comes
To marketing yes absolutely 100% um even if they are a smaller business I always recommend having a website um but you know some there’s really great schedulers out there for people like hairdressers who maybe are like oh like I don’t really need that right now which
In that case I say okay like that’s fine but let’s at least get a really solid social media marketing strategy going for you that way you have that do you plan even social media and marketing and stuff do you plan with the website in mind eventually like do you do you
Trickle it in or tease it in like you know by the way we’ll do this now but the eventual go will be to bring them to your website and really have a web presence is have you found that that’s kind of a cool strategy to eventually
Get them to invest in a website yeah of course and I always explain them the benefits of having a website and just what that does for one SEO them being found the ility to book more clients and I found that there are a lot of clients
Who come to me just for the social media strategy and social media marketing aspect of it but I also have clients who have come to me asking just for social ads and I say all the time okay let’s pump the brakes for a second why are you
Wanting to do social ads and typically it’s because they just think that’s the next natural step in their business When likely it’s not and they don’t have a website set up and I’m like okay where are we going to direct the traffic from these social ads you’re going to need a
Website first like we’re going to attract warm and convert them through your social ads to your website to make that purchase decision um so when people come to me for that I always educate them on the benefits of having a website because it’s going to make ad dollars
And social media strategy just work so much better for you I was just going to say and the question next question I had was like What if they don’t have a website or have a terrible website because that’s of course going to come into play with social media it’s like if
You want to do ads if they go somewhere but the website is just atrocious that’s you’re not going to probably be too successful with the ads I imagine yes and with all of my services I really take an all encompassing kind of business approach and sometimes that
Takes my clients back a little bit because they don’t expect me to look at all the pieces of their online presence their social media their website um and no matter what they book with me I look into a little bit of all pieces of it and of course whatever they book we’re
Diving deep into just that piece um but when they do come to me I look at everything because I think they all work together your social ads aren’t going to be effective if you don’t have a good website your content creation isn’t going to be effective if you don’t have
A good website your website’s not going to be very good if it’s not you know directing people to a call to action to give them the information that they need to purchase your product or service so that’s where it kind of all flows together and where I’ve really kind of
Found my Niche is being that all-inclusive person who’s going to sit down with you look at all the pieces and strategize with you how that is all going to work together okay this is awesome you’re such a great case study J for like having a lot of different
Services but packaging them up nicely and it working together this is a great case study here one other area I want to dive into before we take a deep dive into website in a day versus custom is The Branding elements of what you’re doing so how far do you go with branding
Do you do logo design style guide strategy messaging copy or what’s constrained in your branding services so with my custom design I offer a full branding Suite so that is like a branding strategy with a kickoff call where we dive into ideal client some market like market research um
Clarifying their offer and then also from that designing brand elements that are going to attract their ideal client or customer and speak directly to them um so they get the logo they typically get a word Mark and a badge logo topography and a full PDF branding guide
Um which my clients really love because then they can pass that on to whoever they end up working with whether it’s social media or let’s say a product designer they can say these are my colors these are my fonts this is what dictates my brand and then they can run
With it for my website done in a days I have found that either people are coming to me with a pre-built pre-established brand and all we do is do like a mini branding Suite to dictate that the website is going to be cohesive with The Branding that they already have in
Place yeah and then with marketing strategies typically they already have it or I have created it for them so then we just work around what has already been created so this mini brand style guide is that like almost like a style guide for just the website is that kind
Of how that works I mean I’ve done something similar where a client might have a logo and typical fonts and stuff but if it doesn’t translate online I might do like a a website version that would at least have their brand colors and Main fonts and stuff but it would be
A little bit different in in some ways is that kind of how that works for you yes exactly so it’s really just making sure that what we’re putting on the website is exactly how they want their brand to look and feel they do get a wordmark logo with that if they don’t
Have one already um and we’re just making sure that everything is going to be cohesive for them okay gotcha very cool it’s such a cool setup I didn’t think we were going to dive too far into this but I just I’m fascinated buy a lot of different services and how to manage
Them because there is no right or wrong way to do all this um but it definitely makes sense in my mind how you’re con putting constraints on all this and how it all kind of works together so websites Jen we were just talking websites all roads lead to websites
Especially with digital marketing I think the narrative like clients I think are starting to understand that um not all but some so here’s the real question with your offers of websites you have website in a day and then custom websites which are are typically around our week so how do you help clients
Decide which one of those are right for them is it budget based is it uh because again like I mentioned before we went live I did not do the website in a day route um it’s nearly unfathomable to me to do a whole website in a day even with
It being productized and I’m such a like I don’t like using you know straight up template kind of guy that it would be really hard for me to do that so I was more of a website in a month kind of guy um but I had some that were quicker than
That and some that of course are the nightmare stories of six months and Beyond so how do you differentiate the two like what’s involved with the website in a day versus the custom websit so the websites in a day versus the custom design the website done in to
Day is a template based semic custom website um and it’s lower cost than what Custom Design is Custom Design is very all-inclusive so we go much heavier into that marketing strategy um my custom design clients are typically e-commerce owners who want someone to put in their products for them they are also
Typically someone who has a lot of marketing Integrations as well so let’s say they’re running complex marketing campaigns on like MailChimp or convert kit they need help integrating those pieces or they have a really like just large website with a lot of blogs and they want something that’s like super
Unique to them um with the website done in the days they are template based and they are cheaper so I find that the people I attract for the website daday versus the custom design are pretty different so the custom design is typically going to be like the midsize
Business with typically two to four employees um who has already established an online presence or they are doing really great selling on Etsy is another one that I’ve had a lot of custom designs for um where they realize okay I have a lot of success on Etsy I need to
Be building out a more expansive online store that’s where my custom design clients are my website done Inay are typically beginner and solo entrepreneurs who know they want a website up for either their smaller service or a business that they just started but they don’t have the investment to invest in Custom Design
Just yet yeah I think it’s a great way to go it’s a great like fallback plan and it’s also a great Point like if someone doesn’t want a website or can swing a custom website or doesn’t understand the value you could at least have something to get them going and are
You doing hosting and maintenance for for both packages so it really just depends so I do I offer them on every platform so WordPress show it and um Shopify so if they’re on Shopify or show it they do the hosting I do recommend that they go get their own hosting if
They’re on WordPress but then typically my website done in a day clients end up being my monthly marketing clients as well so then they’re coming back to me and we’re doing Website Maintenance we’re doing some marketing strategy with that yeah if I was coaching you directly I’d
Say like Jim we gotta get you hosting the WordPress sites because they’re gonna you’re gonna get those questions anyway I’m sure you already are and then it’s like if they go to GoDaddy and get a really crappy hosting package it’s like oh no now we got to build a site on
There so uh yeah I wonder if maybe there’s an option to offer the hosting on both of those plans and maintenance and then of course that even if it’s a low ticket type of plan like a 30 or $40 a month hosting and maintenance plan that’s a great little like foundational
Piece of the business that could build off of with marketing Services eventually um but anyway not to get too coachy but that’s what I see there like it’s different with show it and Shopify and web flow and others that are self-hosted but yeah I mean WordPress it’s still the gold standard for for
Maintenance plan hosting at least um so I’m curious with these two how do you sell those though do you like do you just have a conversation with client and then provide those different solutions or yeah how does that work because I imagine a lot of people who might want
To custom site if they’re like well can we just do the website in a day like I guess the question is how do you sell custom vers website in a day so it really depends and I can pretty easily tell based on when someone reaches out
To me just what their online presence is so far um and the information that they give me about their business and what package would be best for them and then also being really realistic about okay what kind of what’s the time capacity here how long is this project actually
Going to take and I have had websites done in a day where okay that’s all they really need is a website done in a day but then I also say okay we can book an additional website done in a day so then it’s two days so you can do them back to
Back if I feel like okay it’s not quite a custom design project but it is going to require an additional day and I have gotten no like objections to that at all so when they reach out to me typically look at their online presence first and then determine which would be best for
Them and it’s pretty intuitive kind of once you get a lot of leads coming in of what services are going to best benefit each lead yeah that makes sense so you kind of have your own filters in place to then cater the plan to them the
Website in a week do you have websites that are huge and it’s like there’s no way we’re going to do this in a week kind of thing because even if you were to work a big week of 40 hours and dedicated a week solely to them they
Plenty of websites that could you know take way longer than that so do you pass those up like a big website how I guess how do you how do you handle a project that is more than even a week so with those I typically like to book them back
To back so back toback weeks um if it’s two weeks then we’re doing two weeks if it’s three weeks okay then we’re going to do three weeks but I like to do that because one when you keep it in a week it tends to when clients book you
Initially there’s super excited they are ready to go um they’re in that action phase so as soon as you get started on their project as fast as you can get working on it and Gathering that material you’re going to get things so much faster they’re going to look at
Revisions a whole lot faster too um which keeps the Cadence of the project being able to be a week but there are times when I say hey this is going to be a little bit more time intensive this is going to require two weeks in which case they’re booking that
Custom design back to back okay so they could essentially just do multiple weeks if need be or or that kind of thing puppy podcast prep jy’s back had a puppy getting a little wild uh which puppies are always a welcome but yeah he was he was having fun right there Max right Max
The puppy Mac yeah Mac Mac got it okay okay yeah mine I’m surprised mine didn’t hear hear him so they’re still sleeping and snoring on the other side here so yeah I was just kind of curious about like the custom website design and how constraints and limitations work on that
So that makes sense that it’s booked out in that way and are you capping that as well like will you only take on a certain number of web design clients for both website in a day and custom at any time um so I only book one Custom Design
Client a month and that is my cap for that because in between that every Friday minus that custom design week I am booking website down toay so the other weeks are website D days and then the beginning of those weeks are dedicated to my other client content creation and whatever admin stuff needs
To get done in my business too okay gotcha gotcha so the lesson here with all of your services is constraints limitations and the Staggering of of projects what about if a project goes over I’m always fascinated by the the website in a day and this type of model
Where it’s like okay you have a week you booked me out for a week but I’m still waiting on CL or content or there’s stuff that’s going over how do you handle the overflow when projects aren’t wrapped up uh and they just are unless you just have such a rockar and every
Project is out the door on time how do that definitely not and that was my huge like my biggest motivator with beginning to add the caps and doing website done in a days and then doing the custom design in a week is because I found my projects were taking way longer than
They needed to and for my clients when they’re in that action mode they get things to me a whole lot faster they review things a whole lot faster and it keeps things just moving along but then also for me me when I book a client I’m really inspired and I want to get
Started right away and that allowed me to be able to do that and I have ADHD so it’s like I get excited I want to dive all in like right now as soon as possible but if things are running over I always like to be like really
Realistic as soon as possible as soon as I am like okay this is going to take a little bit longer than we are anticipating it’s hey these are the pieces we’re continuing to work on it’s going to take x amount of time longer and then being very transparent with I
Need these things from you in order to be able to get this done um because of a lot of clients kind of need that like hey I need this from you to be able to complete your website let’s like get on it and do it and would they get bumped
Out potentially a couple weeks of like if you have a client that’s for website or web website in a week and then they’re still waiting on stuff stuff’s not done but then you have a bunch of other stuff lined up the next couple weeks what happens then to get you know
To get detailed with this like are they bucked out a month potentially or or will you fit them in in another segment in the next week or something so typically what I do because I only do one Custom Design client a month if it is running longer that following week I
Really only have that website done in a day for that Friday carved out so I can like kind of push into okay Monday and Tuesday we’re going to wrap this up um that also typically gives them the weekend to like get their content whatever I need it also gives me the
Weekend to continue working um if there’s pieces of the project that I am still working on um the only thing it like eats into is like either my content creation time or my admin time but typically that’s really not a huge deal and it’s more important to like get the
Client project like done and wrapped up as soon as possible gotcha gotcha okay that makes sense yes particularly with uh the o i it makes sense that you would take on one a month to give you kind of a buffer I imagine with everything else you’re doing do you envision a point
Where you’ll condense your services even more do you I know I seems like a lot of what you’re doing now is still kind of testing like the amount of services you’ll do and reach out to to not extend yourself too far but I imagine you’re getting questions about email marketing
Setup and socials and everything but do you envision another like the next phase of your business reeling in any of these services and dropping some potentially right now I feel like I’m really just expanding because I really enjoy the all-encompassing aspects of all the different services that I offer so
Although I loved just offering web design I found myself getting into all of these aspects and other services anyway as part of my web design packages and there was no reason not to offer them as as separate Services because they were already happening as part of
My web design um so right now I really just want to expand my services and then also I want to hire team members too um that can be a part of all these services so right now I’m just super excited to like kind of expand everything out so a
Concise question on this how are you doing a lot of services well is it the constraints is it the Caps is it the limited like time the time frame for all these different projects how how are you managing all these Services well I guess I mean you’re doing it you obviously
Love what you’re doing you’re becoming more profitable your business is growing I seems to me like you’re on the cusp of delegating and scaling so yeah have you pinpointed like what are some of the things that are helping you do this and not burn out or not be overwhelmed I
Think the most important thing that allows me to do it is that with each project because I have that constraint and I have that cap that time that I have booked that client that is 110% dedicated to them and to them only so that means during that week I have
Content that’s going out but that’s pre-planned um no other clients are getting my attention I might respond to leads but other than that they have a 100% of my time and dedication one that makes a client feel really important but that also gives me the ability to go all
In with that client and then get it done and they feel well taken care of both with the custom design and the website done in a days um I think when I have burnt out in the past it was I had multiple projects going simultaneously and you’re switching
Tasks every single day from okay I got to work on this project for x amount of time this project for this amount of time um and that can kind of lead to burnout cuz you’re just Switching gears so fast yeah that’s true I mean I I found
That to be the case because I didn’t do the this type of constraint booked out model um my solution to that was just to be in kind of a weird way it was kind of the hybrid approach to this where I had my constraints and limitations on those
Projects but I just didn’t label it like that like it was like okay we’ll start this in two weeks uh so it was kind of like it was a weird hybrid model of of or version of this model where I just didn’t label it like booked out I just
Said okay we’re going to start this in two weeks or three weeks and until that time this is what I need you to do that’s how I alleviated that but I did have those Seasons where quite honestly I just kind of just did it like there were Seasons where I was super slammed
And then Seasons where there weren’t as many projects and we’d be able to do more so it’s interesting because it all kind of works but it really does depend on the amount of time you can dedicate to your business the setup what other things you’re doing inside of your
Business so it seems like you’ve struck a really nice workflow and kind of chord with all this um yeah with with all these different services and and and everything moving forward what do you see do you plan on doing something new you think or do you feel like this is a
Really good healthy Suite of services for your type of clients I do plan to go into course creation um with content creation and like blogging and podcasting um that’s something I foreen myself doing I have had clients that come to me I had a client recently and
This was kind of a unique and fun retainer project where she just wanted me to teach her how to blog and how to create content and from and like how to push all the pieces together how to create calls to action so that’s something I foree myself going into is
Offering that to other business owners so they can get started on pulling all those pieces of content creation together this is probably Prime opportunity to do what some of my students are now doing including Eric the of my agency is to kind of have a membership option that’s coaching backed
On top of your services so it’s an offer for current clients who are doing more ongoing social media online business growth whatever that looks like I I could see that working out pretty well for you especially since a lot of your clients are utilizing a lot of these is
To have almost like a client membership like a click Charisma client portal or something I don’t know click Charisma coaching whatever you want to call it um that could be kind of a cool type of option to be able to to support them with like the marketing efforts how to
Blog content creation all the things that I imagine all your clients are doing at different levels but to have an offer like that and to have it be subscription based recurring um that could be pretty cool just wanted to that out there not only for an idea for you
But for anyone who has a lot of different services and you’re getting these requests like can you train me how to do this by golly let’s do it but don’t do it oneon-one do it one to many in a in a control controlled format um whether you make clients a community
That’s a little tricky with different Industries but even if it’s just more of a um yeah like a coaching style approach that’s not super time intensive but just more like course-based or like Q&A based strategy based there’s a lot of room for that I think nowadays and I know I know
There’s it’s working with a lot of my students who are doing it so yeah I wonder what that could look like for you I really like that idea well now we’re making this a coaching call which is equally exciting because this is what I love to do like I love seeing what’s
Working love seeing somebody like e Jen who was a total rock star who is completely different than a few years ago I mean I told you before went live like your communication is is a whole another level uh how well spoken you are you’ve been on camera a lot over the
Past couple years you have your podcast which has helped you out like you’re doing a lot of things right in the way of building your brand and taking things to the next level so I’m kind of curious right now you’ve done a lot of things well things are cooking what are some of
The challenges for you though right now what what are some of the pain points that you’ve experienced with we’ve talked a lot of things that are going well but is there anything that has been a challenge more recently with just business as a whole the biggest
Challenge is is always going to be for me content creation because it is timec consuming and you want it to be quality anytime you’re putting it out and you want it to be consistent too and it’s a catch 22 uh where you’re able to really in other people’s businesses see exactly
What they need to do to make it sustainable and consistent but then when you are doing it for yourself you are like oh my goodness like there’s too many ideas here sometimes we are just way too close to our business um to be able to strategize in that way um so
Content creation has always been that piece of it for me being consistent at it and then yeah just being consistent at it because it’s so timec consuming but it’s also really important because when you don’t you are not going to get as any clients like it’s integral to your business I guarantee
I’m not the only one nodding my head when you said sometimes we’re all just too close to our businesses where it’s really hard to get a feel for like the strategy aspect of things and you’re right it’s like we I don’t I I mean talking to you talking with a lot of my
Students and people I coach in web designer Pro I can very quickly pinpoint like okay here’s the here’s the hangup so let’s do this my recommendation is to split these out to package these Services up to do this and plan this out and there we go we got like a good like
Road map for the next couple months here for me though it’s the same thing I’m like now I can literally coach somebody and then they message me back and like oh my gosh I didn’t think about that Josh you’re a genius I’m I’m on it I’m
Working on it right now and then I look at my business and I’m like ah why can’t I do this with my business I’m still hung up on these pieces here so I’m sure we all feel that so I love that you said that I don’t feel alone now uh here and
That because it is true like what’s the old expression you can’t uh you can’t the label when you’re inside the bottle it’s very very true we’re just consumed by our own businesses and I think the the other part you touched on is the ideas the amount of ideas and options
You could do as freeing as it is in web design in particular to have no cap and no limit on what you can and cannot do it’s also a terrifying reality that that can be a paralyzing thing too if you just can’t decide which way to go or if
You’re worried about working on the wrong thing so yeah that makes a a whole lot of sense have you done anything to help that with the content creation have you found um because then we get in like even if you schedule a day for it sometimes the creative juices aren’t
There like I always end up getting my best ideas on like a Friday night when I should be done working uh so like how do you how do you handle creativity and and uh schedules with like content creation so with content creation what has helped
Me the most is one having a very clear understanding of what is going to be put out with my content creation what are things that my content creation should do for me it should provide value it should educate or motivate and Inspire my audience so if I’m putting out
Content that doesn’t do any of those things then it’s not going to do what I want it to do um with podcasts specifically it has taken me a while and a lot of trial and error on how to make it uh sustainable and make it a whole
Lot faster so for a long time with my content creation I was starting from social media and working backwards you need to think about it the other way because a lot of people con they’ll consume your social first and then they’re going to go into the website but
You’re creating it the opposite way around um and so keeping that in mind but then also how can you make it as sustainable as possible so if you’re doing just blog posts you might as well do a podcast talk about it and then TR like take transcription and then turn it
Into a blog post because that took you the same amount of time and now you’re getting twice the content and then it’s like if you’re podcasting you might as well do it on video because then it’s like you have a YouTube video as well um
And then just you just keep doing it the more consistent you are the quicker and more efficient you’re going to be at creating all those pieces of content and your content is it geared towards your ideal client basically like is is the whole purpose of all your
Social media agend to get clients into click Charisma or is there a bit of a personal brand like thought leadership type of angle with what you do or is your social media 100% for clients so there is definitely a personal brand aspect for it so my podcast Freedom
Based business podcast is really to inspire other business owners that they can have the freedom that entrepreneurship provides and then also share knowledge tools tips that would allow them to do so and showcase stories that inspire them that it’s possible for them too so there’s definitely a huge
Leadership and motivation aspect to my podcast and my personal brand so I share both and that speaks to my ideal client too because a lot of my ideal clients are like I said in that beginner solo entrepreneurship phase where they’re like yes I want to have a life of
Freedom I want success I want all those things so that speaks to them gotcha gotcha yeah I’m always curious about content marketing for web designers because inevitably a lot of web designers I found end up just making web design content and you bring in web designers and diyers who are not your
Ideal clients so yeah it’s interesting that but be is a little more even the posts that I’ve seen stuff that you’re doing it’s a little more geared towards yeah like you said business owners online business owners that may not be web design specific and I do you teach
On like do you create any content about tools you use or is it more just online business principles and stuff like that in the past I have created some like podcasts and a blog post about some of the tools I have they don’t perform as well typically as my story based
Content gotcha and do you think um one one challenge not a challenge but it’s kind of a challenge that I offer a lot of my web designer Pro members is to get to a point where you really start to turn the corner from acquisition to retention and retaining your clients who
Have already worked with you that was one of the biggest regrets that I ever had is not circling back around with my clients especially once I got to a Rolodex of like 50 clients I’m like idiot why didn’t I just start to email them once a month and circle back they
Would have bought from me over and over and over again they just they forgot about me they weren’t hosting in on my maintenance plan so um what does that look like for you have you thought about retention and I don’t know how many clients you have to this point between
The different services but what are your thoughts on that retention over solely just acquisition and worry about new clients yeah so that was also a big motivator for me when I started offering some of the social media and monthly marketing packages is because there was an aspect where you’re having that flow
Convert retain so you’re getting the new clients you’re converting them into a client but it’s like okay how are we going to retain them so your business can continue growing and the easiest client to get is always going to be your past client they and especially if it was a really
Good experience and you know it was a really good experience they’re going to be so excited to work with you so that’s where a lot of my past clients are signing up for like my monthly marketing strategies and that is on a retainer so it’s not just one month it’s actually
Like months nice which could be something you could throw into the cck Charisma client coaching program too I would imagine that could include the monthly uh marketing type of thing oh we’re GNA have to have a coaching call now this is this we can have some fun
With this that’s super exciting okay so that makes sense yeah so it’s so so really it’s more of the marketing end of things that’s your retention is that right yes yeah because that could lead to other projects too right like I imagine if you’re retaining them with a
Monthly marketing call or whatever that looks like suddenly yeah they’re like oh we would like to do a new lead generator or our website is on version one but we would like to upgrade and do this and this and this I would imagine any sort of ongoing strategy or I like that term
Monthly marketing call that’s kind of cool too um particularly for if it if it is that if it is opposed to strategy and Consulting if it is more of a marketing approach because you do social media and and help with content creation I imagine that could be a pretty cool thing too um
Yeah that’s interesting marketing versus strategy like I’ve used strategy and Consulting more of website related which a lot of my students are doing and what I recommend on my maintenance plan course but for those who are in the marketing end of things with social media with Graphics content that is a
Whole new opportunity for ongoing like marketing strategy versus website strategy yeah it is very different and I have a few different services so I have social media marketing and social media strategy marketing is a done for you service strategy is a Consulting I’m planning with you for you but I’m not
Creating the content that is up to you to implement and then my monthly marketing is a monthly marketing and maintenance so it includes Website Maintenance and edits in there but then it also includes the marketing piece where we’re creating lead generators email campaigns um and then any other
Graphics that they feel like they need if they came to me and said hey I need a flyer or a menu I do that for them too how the hell are you doing all this JY as a onew woman show is it literally like I’m trying to imagine what your
Calendar looks like and I’m getting stressed out is it literally the constraints and like are you doing like maybe one social media plan one month and then it might be another few weeks before do another one is that how you’re doing all these different things I just
Do them as they come to me with the social media strategy and planning like I said I really only keep my social media marketing to one client a month that is as much as I’ll take the strategy is a little bit different because it’s less time consuming so I’ll
Take on one or two at a time the monthly marketing I cap at three because I want to make sure that I am available when they do come to me and say they need something and then I think always just setting expectations for your clients too with whatever service that they’re
Off that you’re um like offering or their booking with you and I always say especially with my monthly marketing okay it’s going to be at least 24 to 4 hours from the time you make the request from the time of the finished product dependent on what it is if it’s like a
Quick website edit okay expect 24 to 48 hours I always say if it’s an email campaign you need to tell me as soon as you know when that email needs to be sent um so we can plan and we can test beforehand so giving them as much
Information as and tools needed to be able to be successful with me is super imperative and then also you know gives me the ability to structure my time accordingly too when we talked last time you were new mom you were working almost part-time it kind of seem like what are your hours like
Now all the time 247 maybe that’s business booming yeah it’s a it’s easily 40 hours a week I don’t track my time but it’s easily 40 hour hours a week yeah so you’re definitely on the cusp of of delegating and scaling it sounds like especially
Now that you got I mean you’ve done the hard work of creating your services getting Clarity on the results that you get and the offers uh I imagine you’ve got some systems in place even if they’re not documented perfectly they’re probably in your head a lot but I would
Imagine the next step would be systems like systematize everything productize it in a way that could be repeatable and then start to chip away at yeah delegating some of the lowend tasks that that talking with you here it looks like that might be the next step what what’s
It definitely is is that the ne yeah yes it is I’m already like okay there’s little pieces here and there that I don’t necessarily need to be doing whether they’re a tedious part of like a client project um that I could easily delicate so right now I’m like okay
That’s the next step to okay f it out I’m gonna keep you posted on my new course because I’m working on my scaling course which is called scale your way and I’m really really excited to help folks like you and your position a lot of web designers who are at this point
Where it’s like it’s awesome it’s an amazing challenge to have you’re working a lot you’re super busy Which Way beats the numbers being down and being dry on clients I would take being too busy over not busy at all any day but it is a challenge and I know you’re you know you
Have how old’s your daughter now is she three yep she’s three and a half and is she in like pre so is she in preschool or anything or what’s the daycare like is she home a lot with you when you’re working what’s that look like so she
Does go to school three days a week so then um she’s with a family member on Fridays and then I have her on Thursdays so Thursdays are kind of like the day where we’re doing a little bit of work and a little bit of playing and whatever
We want to do and I try to keep the weekends as free as possible but there’s definitely times where I do have to get some work done in the mornings and it’s always just a balancing act but having her in school helps significantly I only ask that because the difference of where
You’re at now versus a few years years ago when she was really on taking a lot of time uh versus where you’re at now where yeah there’s there may be some other hands involved might be a little more help School whatever it looks like um so it’s very cool Jen Jen this has
Been awesome like I really have enjoyed seeing you grow as a as a web designer and as a business owner I’m excited I feel like round three of you and I you’re going to be a whole different business owner and uh online marketer just with how much progress you’ve made
Already so this has been really cool I appreciate you it’s kind of just SP a case study in a master class on offering a lot of services and growing your business to help your clients and it sounds like you’re doing a good job of listening to your clients as like you
Just mentioned they they’ve been asking you about marketing help and stuff like that and as much as I deter web designers or not deter them but just let them know like heads up be careful about being a full digital marketing agency unless you really want to I think you’re
Obviously your that seems to be like your passion is helping the full Suite of Services rather than just websites So to that I say if you can do it and you love it and you can constrain it limit it go for it uh yes my thoughts on that
I love seeing your journey progress yeah and thank you for having me on this has been so fun and exciting and it’s just exciting to be back on a show that I was on two years ago and get to talk to you again and see the evolution of both our
Businesses it’s just so fun yeah you’re a baby in round one you’re a I guess you’re probably what like a sounds weird are you a toddler are you a little kid business owner now what uh next time you’ll be a Teen business owner now it’s getting it’s sounding creepy but you
Know what I mean it’s like we’re making our uh we’re making our Evolutions every phase of the journey here so I definitely wanna definitely want to see what you do here over the next little while and then round three again we’ll see uh maybe round three will be the
Case study on scaling after what you do here in your business hopefully that’s the goal all right you heard it here folks Jen will be on for round three eventually we’ll talk scaling so Jen thank you so much for your time today and for being just really transparent
With what’s working for you uh already excited for the next one so thanks again thank you Josh so there we go friends I hope you enjoyed this chat I had with Jen as much as I did because I learned a lot from her about how to do marketing and
Services and salary to web design and branding and hosting and care but to do it in a constrained fashion that you’re able to manage effectively because like we mentioned in the beginning web designers do run the risk if you’re just designing websites of being a commodity
And I don’t want to say you can’t just do that because you can but I I do think it’s harder you have to be at a very very expert level and have so much focus and emphasis just on web design itself and if you’re not helping clients grow their businesses that’s that’s really
What they want a website for so even if you just add one of these strategies that JY and I covered or maybe even just part of one I really think it’ll help turn your business around and I hope this conversation gave you some confidence to to do something else
Outside of just branding web design and hosting and care so with all that said I would love to hear from you on how this episode helped you out you can view the links and all the resources we mentioned at the show notes for this episode which can be found at Josh hall.co
294 uh be sure to connect with Jen go to her website click charisma.com and you can connect with her on Instagram where she’s most active @ click Charisma again all those links will be at josh.com SL 294 and if you would like some help with figuring out what you want to offer in
Your growth category and figuring out what works for you based off of where you are in your journey and your skill set I would love to help you and we do that through my coaching Community web designer pro at the time of recording this we still have some spots open
Before we reach our cap and go to a wait list so to make sure you lock in your spot go to Josh hall.co proo you can join us and immediately I will connect with you personally I will look at your website I’ll look at your services and I
Will ask you what challenges do you have what questions do you have about your services and your offers and we will do it together my friends so go to Josh hall. copro I will see you in there and again I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jen it will not be the
Last time this is round two of many I have a feeling I’m excited to see where she’s at in just probably a couple years all right friends enjoy and cheers to doing more to help grow your clients businesses
Video Keywords: Web Design, Josh Hall,Josh Hall Web Design Show,Web Design,Web Design Business,Web Design Podcast,Josh Hall Podcast,Jen Ellsworth,ClickCharisma.com
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Great episode!
This was super helpful! I was trying to figure out how to incorporate digital marketing with web design without being overwhelmed. Appreciate the tips 😊